Marek Kamiński on how the road can be both the destination and home
I met Marek Kamiński just after he returned to Poland from his successful #noTraceExpedition: 30,000 kilometres driven in an electric car, 2 continents, 9 countries and 144 days, at times in very tough conditions, all the way to Tokyo and back. In the lobby of a Warsaw hotel we talked about whether a traveller ever has a holiday, whether the destination or the road matters more, his favourite places in the world and what is wrong with Peru.
JustKowalski: You live in Orłowo, in Gdynia, a beautiful spot. When you are there, do you still think about faraway journeys?
Marek Kamiński: No, I really don't. I feel good at home and I don't have the urge to be constantly on the move. The world is incredibly interesting, but it's not as if I have to be somewhere other than home at all costs. My home is a small world of its own for me, which is why I feel so good there. It may come as a surprise, but my favourite place in the world is actually Gdynia.
justKowalski.pl: And yet you travel a great deal. Do your children show signs of becoming travellers?
Marek Kamiński: I have two school-age children and they travel a lot too. During the last expedition, #noTraceExpedition, my daughter flew out to join me when I was in Seoul. We drove the length of Korea together, then took the ferry to Japan and drove on to Tokyo together. To be honest, my children often choose the places they want to fly to themselves, and I just make those plans happen. Recently they really wanted to see the northern lights, so we spent the last winter school holidays in Iceland (I write about how to drive around Iceland on the blog). Although in fact it was more complicated than that. We flew from Gdańsk to Iceland, where we had a borrowed 4x4, and drove around half of Iceland in winter, which took us a week. From Reykjavík we flew direct with a budget airline to Tel Aviv for about 200 złoty per person. Once we had hired a car in Israel, we drove to Jerusalem and then down to the Red Sea, to Eilat. And from Eilat we flew back to Gdańsk, again direct with a budget airline. So we ended up with a week in Iceland and a week in Israel. For me it was yet another visit to Iceland and yet another to Israel, so I could plan a family trip like that quite easily. I remember my stay in Iceland some 20 years ago, when I had a stopover there on the way to Greenland. Back then I ended up at the geothermal spa that is now so famous, the "Blue Lagoon". In those days there were only a few people there; today it is terribly crowded. The place has been overhyped. I prefer the "Secret Lagoon", not far from Reykjavík, where it is calmer. But I feel best of all at "Fontana": it has an interesting steam sauna, which I am always happy to use.
justKowalski.pl: You mentioned that your children often choose where you go. What guides them? What are they curious about?
Marek Kamiński: The children are 13 and 11 and they are very good at drawing inspiration from what they find online. I really trust the intuition of my elder daughter, Pola. I can honestly say that thanks to her I discovered completely new places in Japan. We have been to the Land of the Rising Sun three times. Recently Pola found information about an exhibition called "TeamLab". It was very hard to get tickets, because they were sold out two months in advance. A Japanese friend bought them at an auction and we managed to get in. It was an extraordinary experience. If it weren't for my children's initiative, I might have just repeated my earlier experiences and wanted to show them what I had already seen myself, but this way we all discovered something new together.
justKowalski.pl: Your journeys to the poles are known all over the world. Does that mean you feel more at home in cold climates?
Marek Kamiński: It makes no difference to me. I feel good anywhere in the world, in any conditions. It doesn't matter whether I am in the desert, in the Arctic, diving in Madagascar or around the Bonin Islands, in the air or under a parachute. I feel good everywhere.
justKowalski.pl: Many of your journeys you made alone, in solitude. Do you feel better when you are on your own, cut off from your surroundings?
Marek Kamiński: No, quite the opposite. I am very curious about the world. I find it hard to imagine a way of travelling in which you shut yourself off and show no interest in what is around you. Why travel at all, then? I am here and now, in the reality that surrounds me. I have spent a lot of time with Aboriginal Australians and with the Inuit. Recently, in the Russian Far East, I met people who live completely differently from us in Europe. I have no fear of encounters like that; in fact I really enjoy them. Not long ago someone told me that Japan is difficult because the Japanese are reserved and don't speak English. For me that was the motivation to learn Japanese and get to know those people better. Besides, why should they learn English? We should learn Japanese. Sometimes I think I am the kind of person who likes difficulties.
justKowalski: Nevertheless, you often spend time in solitude, with nobody around you. How do you cope with that?
Marek Kamiński: Being in silence is important too. I like to meditate. I learned it without meaning to while crossing Antarctica on foot, so really it was life that taught me. I once met a Zen master. It was in Warsaw, where we were running a session together. Afterwards he invited me to a restaurant and suggested a short meditation session, which lasted about 15 minutes. When we parted, he suggested that if I ever had the time, I should come and visit him so that we could meditate together. And indeed, one day I did have the time, and I visited him in San Francisco. I stayed for 2 weeks and that visit gave me a great deal. I learned to meditate. Later, Christian meditation came into my life.
justKowalski.pl: When you plan a holiday, one with the children, is it planned out in detail?
Marek Kamiński: It depends, it varies. It depends on the country. In Japan, for example, you need to prepare fairly thoroughly. But there isn't one model. When we have a lot of time we plan a little, but we don't make a strict itinerary. During #noTraceExpedition, when my daughter joined me, we knew we had a month, so the plan was very loose. What matters then are a few "anchors" that give the stay some structure. Accommodation varies too. We book nice hotels in advance, the ones that might otherwise become unavailable.
justKowalski: Are there places you would still like to go?
Marek Kamiński: Yes, one day I would like to go to French Polynesia with my family. Or for us to drive across the United States together, from coast to coast. Or Hawaii. I know it's commercialised, but it's still unique. I would certainly like to go back to Russia, because I still feel I didn't get enough of it after the electric-car expedition. Lake Baikal keeps coming back to me; I would love to return there, but life is short... you have to make choices.
justKowalski: Do you go skiing in winter?
Marek Kamiński: We used to go more often, certainly every year. Often to Austria and Italy, but we also skied in Poland. Looking back, we must have spent at least 8 seasons in a row skiing as a family. Somehow we lost interest; skiing has become terribly commercialised, it's a real ski industry now.
justKowalski: Do you also like long weekend getaways?
Marek Kamiński: I try to persuade the children, but they prefer to study... I keep trying, tempting them to go to Iceland again. The truth is that the island offers a completely different reality, and it is only a 3-hour flight from Gdańsk. Despite apparent similarities, it is quite different from, say, Norway. It is very distinctive and very empty. A great place for a weekend. I must have been there about 20 times already and I don't think I will ever tire of it. (I devoted one of my posts to Iceland)
justKowalski: Have you ever been disappointed by a place you travelled to?
Marek Kamiński: Ohh yes, Machu Picchu in Peru. But I think it was down to my state of mind. Disappointment is generally a state of mind. It's not the place that determines disappointment; we disappoint ourselves. A place is a reflection of what is inside us, a hook on which we hang what we carry within. The world, to a large extent, is a reflection of what is in us.
justKowalski: Which is more important, the destination or the road?
Marek Kamiński: We think the destination is the most important thing, but it is the road that matters more. "The road is more important than the destination", "The road is my home", "The destination matters because it lets you set off on the road". Every day I read Lao Tzu and his thoughts on the way, which are extremely valuable to me. Time and again I realise that life is full of paradoxes.
justKowalski: Thank you very much for talking to me!
